International Football Results 1872-present - www.world-results.net - 2006 World Cup

International Football Results 1872-present - www.world-results.net

2005-12-06 - 2006 World Cup - Seeding

The seeding groups for the 2006 World Cup have just been announced. Things seem to have gone pretty much as expected, the only exception being that Serbia and Montenegro was chosen ahead of Ukraine for the 'special pot'. Apparently this was done as they're ranked lowest in the FIFA ranking out of all the European teams... But if that's the case, why wasn't this used to seed the teams also, or why wasn't the same method used as used for the top seeds? It seems the ranking was determined by looking at only the 1998 and 2002 World Cups, as well as the FIFA rankings for the past three years (December 2003, December 2004 and November 2005). Very convoluted if you ask me...

Pot 1: Germany (hosts), Brazil (2002 World Cup winners), Argentina, England, France, Italy, Mexico and Spain

Pot 2: (CAF/CONMEBOL/OCEANIA) Australia, Angola, Côte d'Ivoire, Ecuador, Ghana, Paraguay, Togo and Tunisia

Pot 3: (UEFA) Croatia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and Ukraine

Pot 4: (AFC/CONCACAF) Costa Rica, Iran, Japan, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Trinidad & Tobago and United States

Special pot: (UEFA): Serbia & Montenegro

Obviously the 'special pot' contains the 'extra' European team that can be drawn with another European team in one of the eight groups.

For me personally, the only positive thing is that the Netherlands can't be drawn with the Czech Republic.

For the record, below are the coefficients (or if you like from FIFA (as PDF) if you prefer to see how it is worked out):

Brazil - 63.67
England - 50.67
Spain - 50.00
Germany - 49.33
Mexico - 47.33
France - 46.00
Italy - 44.33
Argentina - 44.00
United States - 42.67
Netherlands - 38.33
South Korea - 37.50
Japan - 36.00

To me it's obvious that that flatters certain nations and definately has little bearing on the current state of the world of football (which of course is a fact as the seeding is mostly based on PAST performances... sigh).

2005-12-06 - Different seeding system - same outcome?

Posted by DaveH

The BBC are claiming that "Under the seeding system used by Fifa, England came out second to Brazil while Italy narrowly beat the US into eighth."

It looks like they only took the last 2 world cups into account.

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2005-12-06 - Re: Different seeding system - same outcome?

Posted by

Yeah, just read that too and amended my post. The point I made about subjectivity still stands. Why, why, why do they come up with these systems AFTER they know the qualifiers?

Edited by rdasilva on 2005-12-06 at 14:01

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2005-12-06 - Why change it?

Posted by DaveH

If it made no difference then why change it?

Although I actualy think it is fairer to just include the last two world cups. It can be argued that a team's results 12 years ago has nothing to do with current form. Also in 1994 there were only 24 teams in the finals.

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2005-12-06 - Seeding, does it really matter?

Posted by rdasilva

Well yes, imagine this. The real horror for FIFA will come when two seeds meet in the second round. Imagine Brazil topping a group and any other seed finishing second in their group. Either Brazil or your seed will be knocked out before the tournament really gets going! It'll be interesting to see who matches up with Brazil's group when the draw is made on Friday. Call me a cynic but I suspect that scenario has already been worked out and we'll probably see Germany, England, France and Italy avoid that potential knock-out draw! Given Germany's poor recent form, they may well finish second in their group, and this would mean playing a group winner, probably one of the seeds.

Deep down I hope my home country, the Netherlands, will be drawn in the group with Brazil. That way if we manage to get out of the group we'll avoid them until the finals (assuming of course, that both will get there, which is a big if!). I think in a way to be drawn with them would be the best thing for any country not seeded.

Edited by rdasilva on 2005-12-06 at 14:24

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2005-12-06 - "The special pot" (Manuel Marques from Venezuela)

Posted by Anonymous

I got a question about the special pot. If the special pot is a european team (in this case Serbia & Montenegro), how will drawed?. There are 8 groups and 14 european teams, then will be 6 groups with 2 european teams and 2 groups with 1 european team. It's almost sure Serbia & Montenegro will drawed with Brazil, Argentina or Mexico.

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2005-12-06 - Re: "The special pot" (Manuel Marques from Venezuela)

Posted by rdasilva

Yes, you're correct. They can only be drawn with Argentina, Brazil or Mexico due to the other five seeds being European nations, and each of those will have another European team drawn with them. The '2 European team rule' will stop Serbia and Montenegro being drawn in those groups.

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2005-12-06 - Dutch Group

Posted by Anonymous

Finally we have all the Seeding !!!
Everyone is fearful have a dutch in their group right Now. Even the Host Germany. But they probably will not draw in the same group. Netherlands can win the Cup in 2006 so I agree with the Rdasilva that it is their best interest to End in Group F with Brazil. So they do not have to meet until the Final.
Germany probably get a ok group because they at home and it is the best interest of FIFA to see them advance farther. One reason is Geographic and the team which can have most supporter.

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2005-12-06 - Draw procedure

Posted by Joe McAdams

Not too surprising I guess, although the change in criteria had the potential to change the seeding but luckily didn't. I didn't see any discussion of keeping teams apart from North or South America. With only 4 CONMEBOL teams in the competition, I am surprised that no arrangement has been made to keep the 2 unseeded teams away from Brazil and Argentina. Likewise for CONCACAF and Mexico's group.

I thought the whole reason for not seeding the pots was to make it easier to keep regional teams apart, but it seems to only extra effort was the "special pot" to avoid 3 european teams in one group. With 8 groups, how difficult would it be to ensure that CONCACAF and CONMEBOL don't have half of their entrants in one group!

It may be wishful thinking on my part that the USA is a serious contender, but I think the "group of death" will probably be the one that gets Serbia or the US out of pot D given the other choices, especially if one of those groups draws one of the South American teams as well. Would you rather see Serbia and Paraguay or Angola and Trinidad as the bottom two teams in your group?

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2005-12-06 - Re: Draw procedure

Posted by rdasilva

Hi Joe, I'm pretty sure they will keep the CONCACAF teams separate. I don't think there's a way the CONCACAF teams will get drawn with Mexico. I'm sure we'll have that situation as we usually do whereby everyone ends up being confused and only the people doing the draw know what they're doing. I kind'a hope they'll screw it up on live TV! ;->

As for who else I'd like in my group if I was the Dutch manager, I really don't care too much. We should be able to beat anyone from pot 2 and 4, and if not, we're not good enough so then it's really immaterial anyway. It's probably more pertinent to say who I'd like to avoid, well, Côte d'Ivoire/Australia from pot 2, and Japan/United States from pot 4... Personally I'd like to avoid England and Germany in the draw. Germany can beat us even if they're weak (as was almost shown during Euro 2004 and in the recent friendly) and if we had to play the English and lose I'd never live it down! :-( Both would probably be more tactical than skill, and I'd prefer to watch football.

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2005-12-08 - Which Groups to avoid?

Posted by DaveH

In my oppinion Brazil are far and away the favourites. All the rest of the seeds are much the same. Given that Brazil are in group F then which groups does your team want to avoid if they want to meet Brazil as late as possible in the competition?

In WC2002 to avoid the winners of group F then you didn't want to finish (bad to good) as follows: A2, (B1, E2), (C1, D2, G1, H2), (A1, B2, C2, D1, E1, F2, G2, H1)

Anyone know if they plan to work the draw different this year?

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